SEOPosition Attacks Dosh Dosh with Blatantly False and Inaccurate Accusations
Brian Gilley of SEOPosition has accused me of stealing content, images and ideas for my recent article on paid blogging websites. Now this is something that really pisses me off because his allegations are completely false and I really dislike the fact that he singled me out and accused me of something I didn’t do at all.
The fact that he published a post on his website stating that this is so as prompted me to write this detailed reply on Dosh Dosh.
Now this is a really lengthy response but I’ll really appreciate if you read it in full as there are several points you can take away from it, particularly if you’ve been a victim of plagiarism or unfair allegations as well.
These are his allegations in full:
I’d usually be flattered that someone would think that something that we’d write would be worthy of a mention on their own web site but I’m afraid I’m not so flattered about someone taking our ideas and concepts without proper attribution to us as the creator.
It seems that DoshDosh.com took note of our article titled “A Review of the Top Blog Advertising Sites ” posted on June 21st and created his own derivitive of the article called “A Definitive List of Paid Blogging Websites ” just several days later on the 26th of June.
And my simple response to his accusations is this: I did not take any images, concepts, ideas or text from his website at all. I didn’t draw any inspiration from his article. Nor was my own article built upon or derived from his. Why? Because my article was already completed and written in full before I came across his website.
The Truth Behind this Situation: What Really Happened
I wrote the entire article in the format that you currently see, before I decided to do more online research to see if I missed out any paid blog networks. I came across his website (among many others) and noticed a similarity.
I didn’t read his article AT ALL because all of the networks listed on it were already on my list. Nor did I copy or use any image, text or commentary at all.
To say that I did so is factually incorrect and this needs to be clarified in full so everyone knows Brian Gilley is making a false statement based on his own inaccurate assumptions.
I have been very civil and sent two emails to him to explain my position but he seems to thrive on insisting that I’ve deliberately plagiarized and rewritten his material.
He even has the audacity to suggest that the rest of the content on Dosh Dosh was stolen from other websites.
This was reflected in the last part of his article:
Perhaps I’ll spend some time looking at other posts by him to see if he’s the actual creator of the stories on his site.
I usually do not get riled up easily but someone who accuses me of stealing ideas for all my posts just infruriates me to no end. Smearing another person’s online reputation is just rude and distasteful, especially when you blatantly ignore another person’s explanations and especially when you don’t even have solid proof.
I could make snide remarks about how anyone could even want to hire or work with a person who behaves like that but I digress. Unlike Brian, I’m going to refrain from any personal attacks and just present my side of the story.
Here is a very detailed response concerning specific allegations.
Similar Content Style: The ScreenShot Fallacy
Let’s start with Brian’s accusations on the content style:
Maybe I’m missing something here but I feel like he took our idea without the proper attribution. He even copied some of our images we used on our original post (@ a 502px width), reduced the height a bit, then used them on his own site.
He did go so far as to create a few newer images for several blogs we reviewed and didn’t copy our wording exactly.
Hey, wouldn’t you know, Dosh Dosh also uses the exact same screenshot width of 502px with exactly the same cropped out portion of the page from several of the blog review sites.
Great detective work, Brian. However, you are completely wrong here. Everyone who has been reading Dosh Dosh for the past few months knows that I often combine screenshots with text when I am compiling lists.
The format is always the same: An introduction and then a list of links with screenshot and commentary beneath them.
Need proof? Check out the following posts:
26 Affiliate Marketing and Webmaster Forums to help you Make Money Online – 28th March, 2007
So You Want to Make Money Online: An Extensive Guide to T-Shirt Affiliate Marketing – 4th April, 2007
Web Hosting Affiliate Programs: An Concise Collection of Money Makers – 25th June, 2007
18 Adsense Optimized Wordpress Themes to Maximize your Contextual Ad Earnings – 4th, March 2007
Why You Should Use Roundup Posts for Your Blog: Benefits and Recommendations – 3rd, May 2007
This has always been my way of doing list posts and to suggest that I’ve suddenly decide to use his ‘highly original idea’ of using screenshots is just ridiculous.
Like all the other posts above, I tried to use a set width for them and for the paid blogging post, I’ve decided to use a standardized width, along with some shadows like I always do with the other posts.
Here’s the exact process of how I do screenshots. First of all, I open up my Snagit Tool and pick the Windows function.
After which, I’ll crop the picture so that I’ll get a tight frame of the company logo. Take a look at my list posts on web hosting affiliate programs or T shirt companies. Those posts will easily demonstrate that I always crop a screenshot in the same way. This is an indisputable fact.
Does similar widths in screenshots automatically mean that I’m a content thief? Perhaps this reasoning makes sense to Brian but it doesn’t to me at all.
Screenshots Used are Completely Different
Some of the screenshots used in my original post are completely different from the screenshots on SEOPosition.com. My Payperpost screenshot is a screen of an inner page and show a central image of a woman. His screen shows a man.
My InBlogAds screenshot shows me logged into the website while his shows a logged out screen. My ReviewMe screenshot shows a different list of blogs on the bottom right hand corner of the screen. This is only possible when the screenshot was taken on a separate day.
He has claimed that the screens were accurate down to every single pixel but this was not the case when I zoomed and transposed them on one another. They are not the same. Apparently our method of analysis is different.
I feel terribly upset at his suggestion because I painstakingly took the time to take every single screenshot that I’ve always used. This is entirely my work and I spent a LOT of time, perhaps far more than him, on writing this article. To suggest that I’ve copied some of their images just really, really upsets me.
I don’t like it all. It doesn’t feel good. I feel insulted.
I didn’t copy any of his images, didn’t crop them, didn’t touch them in any way possible. This comes from the bottom of my heart and I seriously suggest that he even consider the possibility of a coincidence. Consider that there is a sliver of truth behind what I’m saying. Consider that I’m not lying at all.
It’s a rational thing to do. To consider possibilities. To accept another person’s civil explanation of what happened. I just don’t understand why he refuses to even assess the plausibility of any explanations whatsoever.
Does he really need the publicity so much? I guess he does.
Similar Commentary: A Shining Beacon of Absurdity
It is interesting how he does the same thing when it comes to commentary. Now here is something that is just absolutely preposterous and demonstrates how he is out of touch with the average bloggers opinion.
In my article, I mentioned that SponsoredReview is similar to ReviewMe and he jumps on that to say that this statement is stolen or derived from his article. Here’s what he wrote in his piece:
SponsoredReviews.com is much like ReviewMe.com and allows for advertisers to search by “Total Rank,” a score SponsoredReviews.com gives based on several measurements…
And this is what I wrote in my article:
SponsoredReview is a blog network that is somewhat similar to ReviewMe but they offer a little more functionality…
And this is what he writes in his post attacking me:
Yes, it’s different but a derivitive as Dosh Dosh points out in the copyright regulations he so adamantly stands behind, wouldn’t you agree?
Voila! Proof of devious plagiarism. No, Brian. Absolutely wrong.
Let me explain how absurd his position is. First of all, here’s actual proof that I’ve always considered SponsoredReview to be similar to ReviewMe: In my January 2007 article on SponsoredReview, I explicitly compared SponsoredReview to Payperpost AND ReviewMe. This was written five months ago.
This is not an opinion I suddenly developed, not an opinion that I stole. Secondly, the statement that SponsoredReview is similar to ReviewMe is hardly an exclusive or highly unique opinion. Claiming that one has a monopoly on it isn’t very convincing at all.
How many of you think that SponsoredReviews is similar to Reviewme? I’m quite sure that are a large number of people who think so. I can easily do a Technorati search and find dozens of bloggers writing the same thing. Does it mean that they’ve plagiarised your incredibly original commentary on SponsoredReviews as well?
Oh wait. Hang on a minute. I might be on to something here. Like my January 2007 article, some of the other blogger’s articles are published much earlier than Brian’s article. I take this to mean that his commentary and thoughts on SponsoredReviews were stolen from me or other bloggers.
All he has done is to demonstrate an illogical application of the concept of derivative content and frankly, it falls flat on all counts.
The Argument on Accreditation
Brian suggests that my copyright regulations only apply to others and not myself:
I emailed Dosh Dosh to ask why he’d do this when he states it so clearly on his own site that he’ll go after whoever takes derivitives of “his” work and calls it their own without credit back to him.
Hopefully he’ll comment here or email me back so that I can find out why his copyright regulations only apply to people stealing his work and not vice versa.
Where did you get that from Brian? I’m sorry to say my copyright policy does apply to me: i.e. I have no problem crediting others when credit is due. And I do credit other people when I write my articles.
I have always been of high integrity: All the readers of Dosh Dosh and other bloggers can vouch for that. I have always methodically credited all the sources I have used whenever I am writing an article. This is an habit I’ve developed from academia and you can see it on every article that I’ve ever written.
Let’s take an example. This article on Wikipedia is one in which I did a fair amount of research and I’ve linked heavily to a wide variety of external sources. I didn’t just write it by stealing ideas from other bloggers. In fact when I wrote it, there wasn’t such an article at all.
Try a Google search to see if anyone has written the exact same article or used the exact same links as well. I’m sure you won’t find any.
I reference. I credit. I link out. Brian doesn’t read my blog. He doesn’t know me personally at all and his assertions are far fetched, especially when he refuses to take into account any of my explanations.
My Experience with Plagiarism
Let it be known that I really do know how Brian feels. The flicker of deja vu when you find the content familiar and then a quick anger which arises when you confirm that you’ve been plagiarized and taken advantage of. I know, because I’ve been a victim of content plagiarism before.
Most readers who’ve been following Dosh Dosh for some time knows that I detest plagiarism. That I really hate getting ripped off. This is something that’s just off limits to me. I would never steal content or ideas from another blogger or website without providing proper credit.
This just isn’t the way I work. I am willing to base whatever reputation or credibility I have by this statement: I guarantee that you won’t find any article on this blog that’s been stolen from others or conceptualized and written without proper credit given.
Please feel free to dig through my archives and meticulously examine every post that I’ve ever written.
What I Think is the Problem Here: Does Content Monopoly Exist?
Brian published his article 5 days before I published my article on Dosh Dosh. Because of this reason, he feels that any similar articles that published later are based on his article.
Does publishing earlier give you conceptual and content monopoly? He seems to think so. I personally think that if you base your article on someone else’s, you should definitely give credit, not only because its the right thing to do but because you add value for your readers as well.
What if you didn’t know that a prior article existed on the topic? Not everyone does indepth research on the articles they write. Thousands of bloggers write about blogging everyday and most of these topics have already been written by blogs with a lot of archival content (Problogger.net being an example).
Does it mean that these bloggers are intentionally ripping Problogger off? No, I hardly think so. They can’t be doing that when they don’t even know a particular article on the same topic exists.
This is exactly the case here. I have never heard of SEOPosition before and I only came across their article after I’ve finished writing my own. I see no reason to reference something that I didn’t use or build upon. Even more so when the article is similar and less comprehensive than the one I’ve already developed.
In reality, one’s perceived monopoly over the topic is tenuous at best. When one tries to enforce it by attacking other authors, this monopoly becomes dogmatic and vindictive. Particularly so if you choose to only judge by appearances and not accept the rational and civil explanations of others.
Giving Exposure to Opposing Opinions or Criticisms
I am not hiding from his accusations. I quoted and published his arguments within this article because I have nothing to fear. There isn’t any wrong doing on my part and if he wants more exposure for his opinions, I am happy to give it to him.
Perhaps this is just a well constructed attack bait. Maybe he feels jealous that my article is getting links from a readership I worked my ass off to build from the ground up. Or perhaps he really does feel that I’ve ripped him off.
It doesn’t matter. This article gives both sides of the opinion, which I think is essential. It seems that he didn’t include any explanations of mine in his article and refused to link to this post, which is a public refutation of his very public accusation. I did leave a comment with a link to this post but it was deleted.
It’s all very one-sided if you ask me. I guess It does make his argument seem stronger and I guess this is how he works when he wants to prove his point.
I’ve always mentioned that if I’m going to criticize someone’s actions, I’m going to link to them and give them full exposure on my blog. This is only fair because I’m going to present my opinion based on theirs. And that’s just the way I work.
Notes and Disclaimers
I have exchanged two emails with Brian over this matter but I have in no way disclosed any of his comments in the email. Nor any personal information at all.
I have kept them in the strictest confidence and note that this article here is written entirely as a response to the accusations published on his website.
I do not know what kind of a person Brian is nor am I familiar with his company’s services so I have not commented on these two factors, which I consider to be irrelevant.
Why I Chose to Write this Response
Why am I spending three solid hours to write this 3,000 word response when I could have just as easily spent one minute to insert an attribution link in my original article? After all, its the weekend and I really do have many more interesting things to do.
For one very simple reason. I’m not going to let someone destroy my online reputation and accuse me of being a content thief when I am not. I take this very seriously, especially since he has thrown this into the public arena by publishing a defamatory article about me as a person and Dosh Dosh as a website.
He is barking up the wrong tree and has crossed the line by insinuating that the content that I’ve written is possibly stolen from somewhere else. Once again, I’ll quote the words that I find really offensive:
Perhaps I’ll spend some time looking at other posts by him to see if he’s the actual creator of the stories on his site.
While questions or thoughts about how I’ve developed my paid blogging article are fairly reasonable, what he has said above is rather libelous and I do think he should remove this baseless allegation immediately.
I’m not looking for more conflict, just resolution, polite discussion and consensual understanding on something that has just gone way out of hand.
Just a simple word of advice for everyone: If something like this ever happens to you, don’t take it lying down. Stand up for your actions if you are unjustly accused and defend the reputation that you’ve worked hard to build. Don’t let anybody push you around and slander your name just because they feel like they have a right to do so.
To all of you reading this, I would honestly appreciate it if you could leave a comment and drop by SEOPosition to let the author know how you feel about this situation.
Update: If you are arriving here from SEOPosition.com, do note that I have made many more detailed responses to the accusations in the comment section below.
Do not take when you have read at SEOPosition at face value because the information presented on SEOPosition is very one-sided and distorted.
Please go through the comments below (which contains points made by Brian Gilley and myself) before making judgment on what has happened.
Mate, he is just baiting you into getting traffic. If you look at the alexa graph you’ll clearly see that your traffic supersedes his by a large amount.
Although he did a pretty good job at getting some high ranking links into his blog, so maybe he does know what he’s talking about when it comes to SEO.
I’d suggest just removing the link to reduce that effect, all long time readers know you don’t steal content and it’s a shame you had to post this. Keep on fighting the good fight.
I don’t think you should have posted this post. I would have ignored it. You have no need to justify yourself. You can’t plagiarize an idea. It’s as simple as that. So I don’t think you need to defend yourself, I’d just delete this post and be the bigger person. Because it just feels like being back at school.
Oh dear, Maki. I’m really sorry to hear that. I agree with you that much content is already in the public domain, and no one can really claim ‘ownership’ of such content. However, having said that, I must say that, you have always, on this blog, added real value to content that is freely available. I like DoshDosh because you don’t just reproduce freely available content, you do a lot of work to make it relevant to your readers. That is why I keep coming back.
I will go over to SEOPosition to make a comment.
Goddess Carlie, it’s good that Maki responded in this way. At least this way, his version of events is out there for all to read. If he left the accusations unanswered, some might take it that he is guilty. Being accused of plagiarism is a very serious matter, and he is wise to defend himself as robustly as he can.
I like the bit “Perhaps I’ll look into his other posts and see if he wrote them”, obviously a busy company he runs!
Seriously, I wouldn’t worry about it. All 27 of his subscribers (which when you take away his family & mom ain’t many) read that post. His site has got broken links and lacks anything like the great content on DD.
I posted a comment on SEOPosition, but I doubt he’ll approve it..
-Mark
Maki, don’t worry about some no name spouting flames. Let him continue to stroke his ego, who cares. All you did today was increase his daily traffic 10x. We all know you don’t steal content, you don’t have to convince us.
Maki,
I just left a post on their site. Here it is in case they do not publish it-
“Hmmm… I just read the doshdosh defense and he seems pretty adamant that you jumped the gun on this and leaves a very comprehensive and thorough defense. If you are somehow sure you are right I would be interested to see your response. If you leave no response to his defense I think the guilty party is obvious at that point. If you do realize that you may have cried wolf I do hope you have the integrity to publicly apologize -false accusations ARE NOT FREAKING COOL.”
I just subscribed to your site a few weeks ago and have been impressed with the quality of your posts and after reading you lengthy defense I have a hard time believing you would shaft somebody like that. I am therefore interested in what his response will be and like I said to him, I hope he has the decency to apologize if he realizes he blew it.
Perhaps you should read through SEOPosition’s blog to see if all of HIS content is original and unique.
Personally, I’m a big fan of the idea that if you have been the victim of plagiarism, you immediately get your legal representative to handle it off line.
If it’s not important or blatant enough to get a lawyer involved, keep your mouth shut… a false accusation of plagiarism then becomes libel against the person you’ve accused.
Personally, I think he’s just trying to leech traffic from you. I’m not buying into it. I have no intention of clicking over to his site… and really you should think very hard about encouraging anyone to click over to his site.
I’ve read traffic building tips that suggest just what this SEOPosition person did: create confrontation, or tell someone with more traffic than you they are wrong.
He got some traffic — too bad its going to be BAD attention.
Keep up the good content here, and I agree with everyone about the whole info monopoly business… almost any information is out there on the net, really. Adding our personal touch, and making it more related to what our sites are about is what makes it maintain value, and gain more value by our using it.
While plagiarism is beyond wrong, this obviously isnt the case — and even if it WAS, his is just a post about other sites and what they’re good for, it isnt like he had some break through idea or something that you supposedly stole… ahh, geez.
Keep up the good work on Dosh Dosh!
Hi…I’m a long time reader but after reading this I just had to post my first comment. You give so much great advice and seem like a real genuine person that it bothers me that someone would say these things about you. Hang in there and know that you have a lot of support out here in cyberworld.
Hi Everyone,
Thanks for all the supportive comments that you’ve left. I really do appreciate it a lot. I’m aware that I’m sending him traffic but I’m fine with that because its not a recommendation of any sort, particularly after I’ve clearly argued my point on how his behavior doesn’t reflect well on him.
I guess I could have kept quiet but silence does mean consent or agreement in some ways. There are people who have never heard of me or Dosh Dosh before and I really don’t want them to have the wrong impression, at least not without presenting my side of the story.
As I’ve mentioned in the article, being identified as a plagiarist is something that really pushes my buttons. I dislike it tremendously because it is absolutely untrue in every way. When someone throws this label out on me in the public sphere, it’s just something I can’t avoid dealing with.
I really don’t like conflict and I’ve tried to stay diplomatic in my relations with others online. But this just crosses the line.
Holy [insert whatever bad word here]!!
Maki, I’ve been a reader of DoshDosh for many months now. And you know how much I like your stuff, I have absolutely no doubts that this guy at SEOposition did this to simply increase his alexa rank.. heck even I receive more traffic than him! lol
This is purely a bad attempt at linkbaiting. Needless to say I wouldn’t encourage anyone to do business with seoposition. If he had sent you a simple e-mail asking for clarification, his reputation would not have suffered, but by false accusing you, he just put himself in a really bad position. But he didn’t, he made all this public without any proof…
I won’t even take time to write a comment on seoposition… anyway chances are he won’t approve it, and I don’t wanna go there anyway.
You rock Maki!
Hello Maki, I wouldn’t worry about that buffoon… he really sounds like a total jackass. Your reputation will not be tarnished because some nasty and obviously highly unethical person would decide to use you to gain publicity and readers.. it’s so obvious that’s what he is doing. If he was any bit of a professional; he would have personally contacted you and let you know of his thoughts instead of attacking you personally without any provocation. I am glad you defended yourself. People like Brian should know that personally attacking another blogger is not cool and his method does not bode well to his blogging future. You have a wonderful blog. Don’t let the haters get you down.
Hey Maki,
Defamation is an underhanded and often used political attack. Well handled.
Love to see the look on his face when this post ranks for his sitename.
Hi Maki,
I read your entire response. I also visited his site and compared notes. I really don’t see where he’s coming from and I think this may “backfire” on him. I personally don’t see anything wrong with getting inspiration from another source. Inspiration is good for the evolution of mankind. Michael Jordan was inspired by Dr. J, and Kobe Bryant was inspired by Jordan. Does that mean that Kobe is a thief? Absolutely not.
I love how you use Anime images. I love Anime and thought it might be a cool idea to do something like that and make it a blog for kids who love art and drawing. Seriously, there’s so many “bigger problems” in the world. Please keep up the good work and please have your attorney send him a letter to “cease and desist” with his accusations!
Maki,
You don’t have anything to worry about. The quality and originality of posts on this blog cannot be disputed.
Don’t let this get to your head. Look at it from another perspective — If other’s are making such allegations, it means you’re obviously doing something right and getting the traffic others are not!
Take care.
~Anuj
http://OnlinePresence.BlogSailor.com/
Uuuummmm, I have reason to believe that there’s similarity in these 2 articles for a reason. I have a suspicion that Brian Gilley and Maki are the same people.
If you look at these 2 sites with SEOquake for Firefox you’ll see that the articles are not the only things that are similar.
We’ll just have to see if this comment ever sees the light of day!
Brad Masterson
I think you handled the allegations very well. Of course everyone who’s been reading your site for months knows you’re not a content thief. There are some highly irrational people on the internet and who knows, maybe he did accuse you just for the hits.
Your site has been incredibly useful to me and I check it every single day for new content! That said, can you please write a post about the SnagIt tool or capturing images for websites? I actually don’t know how to do a proper screenshot and was intrigued when I saw SnagIt. I’m searching for it now. I think it would be a useful topic for blogs that include many images.
Brad,
And what reason exactly do you have to claim that the articles are similar? I’ve stated my reasons why Brian’s accusations are false in my article well enough and I won’t be repeating them here. And to suggest that he and I are the same person is just silly. And your reason for saying that is based on stats seen on SEO for Firefox….Hmmm. I don’t know if I should even dignify your point with a response.
I approved your comment because you offered an opinion.. no matter how far out it sounded. Not to be snarky but I don’t see any approved comments over on Brian’s blog.
Were you asked to do some flaming at this comment section?
If i were you i would have asked my legal adviser to contact him for making false accusations.
When people writes about such topics which are very narrow its obvious to find some similarities and it really isn’t cool at all to make such accusations of plagiarism.
Its nice to see that you didn’t choose to keep your mouth shut.that would have been a mistake.
I’ve had this happen to – and in some ways it’s bound to happen because in a niche as tight as we write in there are only so many stories to write. Every day I see 10-20 posts on topics that I’ve written about – sometimes they seem remarkably similar to mine – but that’s life.
Occasionally some probably are inspired by something I’ve written but even in those cases I try not to get too precious about it and take the approach that if they add something to the conversation and teach people about the topic that I’m passionate about that in the end it enhances the niche I’m writing in.
Only in blatant copying situations (ie where specific chunks of content are copied without attribution) do I get a little peeved off by it.
hey,Maki,
i read his post,
he was the winner as you replied his stupid post,
and earn a huge traffic and backlink from DD,
do you consider to add “nofollow” at his links?
It’s funny, I also your post after seeing his, and I did notice a similarity but a quick glance showed that your article went much further and so I bookmarked yours instead.
As someone who’s been reading Dosh Dosh for some time, the thought never entered my mind that you would have copied him, or vice-versa. But let’s face it- it only matters to a point. As you rightly point out, no one has a right to content monopoly, they just have rights regarding their own content.
Perhaps he decided to start this controversy with you as a way to get some traffic?
There are always some ppl like that.
Just remove the link.
@ Wallace: I think the “nofollow” is there.
The way I think is that any publicity is good publicity, and that’s what the other guy is looking after.
Content monopoly doesn’t exist, obviously. On a somewhat completely related, around the gaming webcomic world there is this joke that every other webcomics are a knock-off of Penny Arcade.
It’s actually pretty funny to find the same kind of problem (content monopoly) on two different areas like this.
Keep up the great work, Maki. We all know you didn’t steal contents.
“As you rightly point out, no one has a right to content monopoly, they just have rights regarding their own content.” True that.
Don’t let it bother you dosh… Keep on doing what you are doing, and check out my blog
365 Days… One Dream… Can I Do It?
http://onemansgoal.blogspot.com
If I had come across SEOPosition’s article accusing you of plagiarism before you pointed it out I would simply have dismissed it. It’s vague, talking about an idea that anybody thinking of earning money from blogging will have thought about, and it’s just sloppy.
You’ve answered it comprehensively. I wouldn’t give him any further thought or traffic.
read your blog for quite a time now and i believe that you don’t have to plagiarised to have good content. keep it up maki.
Maki its a weird one, I must admit that when you posted that article originally I had a feeling of deja vu, as well as I had posted a similar article named Make Money Fast from our Definitive List of Paid Post Sites in the first half of May and although we mainly include the same sites in our reviews and have a similar title, a quick read of your article, plus having followed your site for a long time mean’t that I know for a fact you would never copy anyone elses content. (yours was way more indepth than my article which was just a basic list – great job) The problem is that with so many blogs covering similar content these kind of issues are going to come up and unless you know the blogger the first instinct is to think the worst.
Don’t worry Maki you are one of the most original Bloggers out there and anyone that follows your site knows that.
One thing I will say though is that I think Matt who recently did a guest post on problogger which was similar to one of yours is also a pretty straight up guy – another example of how easily it happens.
Rob
Hi
Don’t let it bother. Your post are very important to me.
My first impression was what several others have said, that SEO Position found a way to create conflict and draw traffic to his site. Don’t sweat it, Maki, just keep doing the fantastic job you do.
Perhaps he has read your blog, and knows how passionate your are, and thereby also knows that controversy sells.
Get a little mud slinging going on, and hopefully readership increases. Sounds slimmy, but the things some people will do.
I don’t see any comments over at SEO Position’s Post. I think he is getting hammered and does not want the comments to be made public.
He is probably saying to himself, “I should have kept my mouth shut.”
It’s not a good feeling when one puts a “foot in the mouth.”
smells like bait to me -_-’
yes, there’re a lot of trolls out there.
Maki, don’t worry, readers out there are pretty astute, the fact he hasn’t allowed any comments sums it up.
Stick to what you do best, writing solid content.
…………………………………………..
Chris @ http://www.frostfireseeds.com
I think you give too much importance to this. You are aware people are constantly stealing content in order to make a quick buck.
My comment is merely to join the band waggon of morale boosters, but I won’t tell you not to let it bother you Maki, because I know it does. I’ve been accused of some things in my time, online and off, too: always by those jealous that I was doing better than them in some way.
I fully understand why you wish to defend yourself to those who don’t know you yet, but as another long time reader Maki, I know that you do not and have not plagiarized either the article in question or any other. The quality of you posts speak for themselves.
Besides, it shows how much this fool knows with, as someone has pointed out already, you can’t plagiarize an idea. You can’t copyright an idea either, which makes his accusations just entirely laughable.
Of course many blogs are going to cover similar lists, items, topics, etc. If anyone doesn’t see that, then think of all the newspapers who all “coincidentally” cover all the same headlines each day, or do the same topical articles for regular holidays and events. There are virtually no original ideas: just recycled ones, but each one has their own – valid – take on it.
Let´s just say that there is a good reason I subscribe to your RSS feed and not Brian´s.
Keep up the good work.
huh!. Maki! – Served as an excellent ‘Sponsored Review’ for SEOPosition.
Looks like he is not enabling comments on his post.
There’s one rule on O’Reilly’s Code of Conduct that could be used here: contact privately first.
The guy obviously rushed to some conclusions… and now he is not looking so cool.
I subscribe to your blog. I read your Paid Review post which I think was a comprehensive description of the companies involved, and it was well researched. His version is quite shallow and shows up a guy who’s really not into it. Based on his post date and the fact that he “wrote it first” is no ground to allege that another writer had plagiarized his work. I’ve also written about SponsoredReviews and ReviewMe before all this. In the publishing world, an idea, as mentioned by Goddess Carlie, cannot be plagiarized. You’re right, he’s barking up the wrong tree. I’ve followed many of your posts and am familiar with your style of presentation. I think it’s good that you replied to him because that will help to expose such people and, perhaps, prevent other genuine bloggers from being confronted and accused in a similar situation in future.
I haven’t commented on any of your articles but felt moved to do so. You are the first blog I subscribed to on the internet precisely because I felt that you have a lot of great content. I like the design of the site and you provide a massive amount of information that I’m finding very useful as I make my way into blog world!
I’m a writer myself and have been plagerised once in the past (not on the net) and it is truly a horrible feeling. To be accused of plagerism however when that isn’t the case I can imagine is also just as horrible.
Considering the topic of your blog it would be silly to say that no one anywhere is writing on similar topic at a similar time.
I can see you put a great deal of time and effort into this blog. And that’s why I shall continue to visit and read! Don’t let it get you down and keep writing
Dosh,
I can only concur with all the positive comments you
have received. I do believe that you were correct in
detailing your prep work for the column and making the
whole thing public because you know you have a lot of
very supportive readers. I would think that the SEO
guy would have contacted you by email before throwing
out accusations!
Coincidently I referred to your same post to support my application to Blogsvertise – they request a post featuring Blogsvertise as a sample.
I really value all the good information in your posts
and the clear way you present it.
Thank you Dosh,
Fran
Maki, you write incredible content and the guy at SEO Position is an idiot for calling you out for plagiarism; when in fact it was two articles on the same subject by coincidence. We know how hard it is to write good articles; only to have someone discredit your work is like a direct stab to the heart.
The 502px width is way off base to consider it as evidence of plagiarism, anyone with common sense would know all screen shots look the same if the originating website do not change content. And within a 5 day span, these pay per blogging ad networks are not likely going to change the look of their sites.
Your rebuttal is perfect and makes Brian Gilley the fool.
Hi, I just thought I would give you the text of the comment I left on SEOPosition, since they’re probably only posting comments sympathetic to their own position (big surprise there):
Tempest In A Teacup
Sorry, I just don’t see it. Just because someone had the same idea as you at the same time as you doesn’t mean he stole it from you. I think you’re missing the whole idea of Zeitgeist.
Besides, if you and DoshDosh aren’t even saying the same thing in the single citation you make in this post (as you admit when you say “yes, it’s different”), then I doubt there is anything else that is really all that in-common or derivative between the two works. When you make the claim of plagiarism, I expect you to make citations from the two works where there is little or no doubt that the citations are the same. I assume the citation you chose is the best argument you can make as to DoshDosh’s derivation of your work. As such, since you yourself admit it is different, your argument holds no water.
It’s for similar reasons that SCO did not succeed in its suit against IBM regarding Linux — the source code SCO produced to support their claim was buggy and unclear, while the corresponding Linux code was clear and without bugs. SCO (and you) need to produce irrefutable evidence of your claims of plagiarism. Otherwise, they are baseless.
And, by the way, it’s “derivative”. Look it up: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/derivative
Two i’s, not three. “A” follows the “v”.
Submitted by Rick S. (not verified) on July 1, 2007 – 23:46.
Maki, you definitely know that you have all of our support. I blog in the Weight Loss niche, and I realize that in a tight niche there are only a few post topics that haven’t been covered from here to infinity.
I think that what Darren said about the situation is the best practice. If someone copies something verbatim, then I’d get mad. Otherwise, it’s just a matter of blogging in the same niche. Every single blog about making money blogging has blogged about one or more of the sites on your list. His is no exception.
I am always very polite to people online, and honestly I’m sick of people using tactics like this in an attempt to increase their readership. It’s slimy. What’s the difference between his site and your? One is a turd and one is a Snickers Bar. His might look like chocolate, but only yours tastes good.
I thought I would chime in with what I commented to him. I used ProBlogger as an example:
——————–
So what you’re saying is that because you both agree that reviewme and sponsoredreviews are similar, that he’s plagiarizing you? Give me a break. I’m a member of both, and I can see that both sites are *very similar.* This is not a new opinion, nor do you own this opinion. In fact, Maki mentioned that they were similar in a post in January. So by the logic you’ve applied here, you would be plagiarizing him.
But it’s not plagiarism. Not even close.
DoshDosh did a well-written, in-depth article covering more networks than you. If ProBlogger puts out an article on the same topic tomorrow, will you accuse them of copying as well?
Your post amounts to little more than Libel, and frankly I hope DD has a lawyer because I am so sick of people like you on the internet. This is a really despicable thing to do for linkbait, and I hope you realize that you’re going to lose a lot of readers because of this.
Griffin
Jealous Wankers is what they are Maki*
keep up yer Great work*
ironically someone on MyBlogLog just asked me if i knew of any resources for Help to Increase Traffic to their Blog & i immediately thought of & recommended U*
Cheers!! Billy
)
It’s a link baiting attempt from Brian. Just ignore him. He has a low traffic blog and desperately needs the attention. Does anybody notice he rejects most comments? Now we know who’s more transparent.
BTW, he got 21 subscribers to his feed. Amazing!
Whether or not you decide to post this opinion is totally up to you. I am a writer and I know how it feels to be plagarized…it sucks…
I think a lot of people are missing the point on this… I believe the major issue SEO Position has here is with the images being so incredibly similar… they are the same size and use the same “snippet” of the page for the shot. In fact, you can transpose the images on top of each other (minust the drop shadow) and they are exactly the same. With that being said, I don’t think what he is saying is remotely libelous.
I think you both take a lot of pride in the work you do and I think everyone on here who is jumping on the link baiting wagon is really jumping the gun.
Furthermore, by responding to this article, you actually do personally attack him as well as create a hostile platform for people to say rude and baseless insults about a person you don’t even know. For example, in your post you say … I could make snide remarks about how anyone could even want to hire or work with a person who behaves like that but I digress. Unlike Brian, I’m going to refrain from any personal attacks and just present my side of the story.”
Question: Where in SEO Position’s article does he “personally” attack you? He didn’t “attack” anything about you as a person.
Also, did anyone ever think that the reason why he hasn’t approved any of the replies on his site is because he has an actual life on the weekends… What a concept..
I think everyone here should stop licking your wounds and look at this situation for what it is… One writer/blogger saying his content/images were used by another writer/blogger without being credited. I wouldn’t be “flattered” by that either…
Leigh
Leigh,
I’m aware that the images are similar. I didn’t say they were not. However they are not the same size exactly and using the same snippet doesn’t mean that one has stolen material from another. I have explained myself clearly how I always created snapshots in the same way and it seems that you’ve overlooked that.
I’m not creating a hostile platform for anything. Let’s be honest here. We all know who started this. Brian wrote an article attacking and claiming that I stole material from his blog and I’m just responding in kind. He pitched his opinions out in the public arena and I have a right to respond on the same platform. I’m sure this makes sense to you or anyone who’s been long enough in the blogosphere. Stuff happens like this quite often.
My commenters have their right to express their opinion on this matter, so do his commenters as well. I have published ALL comments: both those that support my point of view and those who disagree against mine. This is called having a discussion and I do think you are the one that’s missing the point here. There are no censors here but I’m not sure about elsewhere.
I’m actually offended that you criticized all my commenters and suggested that they were ‘licking their wounds’ and saying that they were ‘all jumping on the linkbait wagon’.
There are some very valuable opinions here from respected bloggers on topics concerning content monopoly and plagiarism and I’m sure you somehow conveniently neglected to read them.
I’ve mentioned the line twice in my article and I’m not sure how you missed it and failed to understand what I’m saying. This is really a time waster but I’ll put it out clearly just for you one more time.
“Perhaps I’ll spend some time looking at other posts by him to see if he’s the actual creator of the stories on his site.”
This is just the most offensive one. If you have the time, go read the title of his article. It claims without any doubt that I stole (“copied”) material from his website. And he goes along and suggests that the other content on DoshDosh are stolen as well. He has absolutely no idea who I am and the level of integrity I uphold and this entire post is dedicated towards refuting his untrue, baseless and libelous suggestions.
Whether he approves all the comments left is yet to be seen.
This is my blog and I want to tell you straight out that I’m not a fan of anonymous commenting at all. If I had the time, I’ll double check the ips to see who’s trolling around. Your point in the previous comment is well taken enough so if you have anything else to say, I would appreciate it if you please send me an email instead of commenting again.
I really don’t want to visit his fetid little blog and give him the benefit of another hit to be honest – he’s obviously read one of those blogging tips lists that suggest using confrontation as a means of boosting traffic and gone for it. Tool – I mean, how many ways of comparing paid blogging sites are there? They’re all going to have a similar theme after all. More than once I’ve posted something to see it on another blog a few days later, sometimes I was first, sometimes it’s the other blogger – as long as it’s not word for word, it’s just one of those things.
The accusation was made publicly, so had to be defended publicly, and all he’s achieved is to put a black mark against his blog name in the minds of thousands of readers-if I happen to stumble across his blog in future, I’ll know to keep moving right along.
Life’s too short to stress about assholes-write them off & leave them behind.
Maki why do you care? I wouldn’t even link to his website you know how much traffic he is getting for free? Take that link down.
I support!
Hi Maki (Dosh Dosh) and other people who commented here.
First of all, I’d like to clear up something right off the bat. My original post was not ever intended to be link bait. If it ends up as that it’s because you’ve decided to post a short novel taking hours of your time to amplify your thoughts and convictions to your many readers – some of which are not entirely accurate.
So, the clarify once again – this was NEVER intended to be link bait and I agree with some comments above where they are saying to you that you are giving us lots of traffic and shouldn’t. We didn’t ask for it nor was it ever any intention of ours to receive it. Personally, I could care less if SEOposition got any traffic, but more on that later.
*** I want to briefly touch on some points below ***
Reading some of the comments above has really opened up my eyes about how some people will make decisions and short sighted, childish comments based on nothing more than the facts from only one side. It’s immature and shows an incredible shortsighted mental capacity to name call – “Jealous Wankers,” “Fool,” “Buffoon,” “Jackass,” “Asshole,” etc., etc… I mean, WTF? This is libelous and shows the true color of some of the people commenting on your blog.
To the ones who like name calling and to Maki especially – you mentioned earlier on about not attacking someone or becoming personal, but you made a few comments that veered toward the side of personal and some of the people that commented here on your site have severely crossed that line. If people are going to suggest that you taking legal actions in their comments above, I think they and you had better think really hard about doing this because you are approving people’s comments on a blog you own who are saying libelous remarks about my name and our company. That doesn’t make much sense if you ask me. It’s like giving rioters more rocks and bottles to throw without cause or reason.
We’ve grabbed a complete copy of this page for our own legal team to review since you are allowing people to libel my name without any idea of what’s been said between you and I offline and/or knowledge or facts of the topic. All of the web sites and libelous statements will be kept for review.
Further, for those saying that we are not accepting comments on our site – we are. Like most blogs though, all comments are approved by someone before they appear on the site and most of the ones made were over the weekend, so none appeared. Why is that so hard to imagine??
However, if you are going to make any comments we will not accept any comments that promote name calling or libelous, childish remarks – even if they are directed towards Maki. I don’t dislike him and have no reason to let people call him such names as he’s let people call me and our company, but it seems like we definitely do not hold the same mindset or standards in that department.
Maki, you mentioned above that you want to create an open, modest discussion with your users. That’s great and all, but an open discussion with complete strangers that name call using words like Jackass, Buffoon, Fool, etc. isn’t a constructive discussion by any standards. This is libelous.
Also, I wanted to make another point to some of the people here. I did email Maki when I saw his post. So please do not comment on things that you presume to have knowledge about. It’s not very fair, doesn’t make much sense, and is extremely one-sided. We exchanged emails before he ever posted this rebuttal on his site.
I also explained, in short, the reasoning for my thoughts to you by email.
OUR MAIN ARGUMENT WAS OVER THE IMAGES USED! I think this is pretty apparent on our original post. We did make a comment about another post comment being similar but I went on to say clearly that Maki created some of his own new images as well as more reviews of his own. But I guess that really doesn’t matter too many of your readers, does it?
About the images – We spent quite a bit of time transposing some of the images you used in your post on top of ours – to the exact PIXEL!!! I feel that everyone would be highly surprised at the exact match for the images we used from our post versus yours. The coincidence in the exact pixels matching up from several of the images is mind boggling, especially since we did a full print page from the sources and cropped them down by using Photoshop. It would be extremely rare to match exactly what we did to the pixel since we did them all by hand and omitted so much of the rest of the 100% printed page originally copied.
*** Very Important Point Left Out ***
Maki, I mentioned twice in emails sent to you already that we have a robust log tracking software we use on our site and all of our sites for that matter. I saw your IP and you visiting that page and others on our web site where the blog review post lived well BEFORE you ever posted that article. But you told me, and I quote:
“Yes, I did come across your blog half and hour after the post was published and noticed the similarity.”
This just isn’t so and I can prove it with our tracking software. It doesn’t lie and neither does your IP address. So why would you say the above statement? I don’t get it.
Also, why would you not share this important piece of information on your post above? I’ll post this on our site once we get approval from our attorneys to show everyone, but I don’t lie so I don’t feel like I need to defend myself unless we’re given approval to post it.
I’ll also be glad to (hopefully tomorrow) elaborate more on some of the statements in your lengthy post above but at this point I’m going to defer to our legal team handle this since it seems name calling and badgering seems to be the soup of the day, at least for many of the commenter’s remarks that you are letting post without a clue to what’s been said in email or otherwise.
*** For the record ***
We don’t need traffic on SEOposition. In fact we could really care less about traffic or getting any new clients because we only take on a few clients. SEOposition.com is simply a holding company for many other online businesses and web properties we own and manage. That’s why posts there are few and far between. In fact, we could care less about our Alexa ranking, the number of readers we have, links to that site, or many of the other “benefits” we are presumed to be fishing for according to some of your readers. We have hundreds of other sites and SEOposition.com is about ¾ or more down the priority list of what’s important. So again, it would help if people understood some facts before spitting out false statements on what they feel is correct. It just doesn’t make sense.
I will be more than glad to post more on our site either today or tomorrow upon approval from our attorneys.
Best Regards,
Brian
Hi Brian,
I’ve never claimed that your intention was linkbait. The readers construed it as such and frankly, that’s not surprising given how things turned out. There’s no 100% proof that your post was linkbait.. that’s easy to understand because we can’t get in your head to assess your motivations. Everybody knows that.
This shouldn’t even be a point argued because the commenters have the right to express their own opinion on the origin of a specific action.
Which brings me to your point on name calling. First of all, it is not just based on one-sided facts. I have clearly linked to your post and quoted it in detail in my post. Your opinions are well represented on my site. This is not the case for your website
I left a comment two days ago after I published the post.. the comment included a link to my detailed response on this blog. The comment showed up and the link did not. Why did you delete that link?
Such responses simply display the defensive nature of loyal readers when someone in their community is unjustly attacked. Compare this to the handful of “anonymous” commentors who came to your defence
You’re actually insulting a whole bunch of my commenters by calling them people with ’shortsighted mental capacity’. But I wouldn’t call your statement libelous. It’s an opinion and you are free to have. Just like the other opinions offered by my commenters. Are you going to haul me or them in court to prove that you’re not a ‘fool’ or ‘buffoon’? On what grounds are you going to do that?
I am not a lawyer in any way but just allow me to quote Wikipedia on the topic of libel and the concept of opinion as a defence.
On the other hand, you seem to conveniently ignore the fact that your entire post was in fact libelous. Your entire post is a statement of fact. You claimed without a certainty of doubt that I stole from you, even when you don’t have absolute proof. (ip logs and similar screenshots don’t count as absolute, indisputable proof I’m afraid. More on this below)
You refused to accept my explanations and even consider the possibility of a coincidence. You insinuated/suggested that the content for other articles was stolen from other sources as well. (You did the right thing by retracting this statement. Thanks.)
I will not delete these comments on my blog because they aren’t statement of facts but the free opinions of other individuals. On more thing. These comments do not show the ‘true color’ of the people commenting on my blog.
You don’t know them and I would suggest not jumping to conclusions about their personalities. But as I’ve mentioned, that is your opinion and I’m going to leave that to you.
As I’ve mentioned. Hardly libelous. Opinions. Not statement of facts.
I did mention that we exchanged emails in my post. You need to read it more thoroughly. I didnt say that you didn’t email me. I said we exchanged two emails and everyone who read the post understands that.
Your main argument consists of adamantly suggesting that I stole material from your website when you have no proof. You quoted a commentary of mine and said it was derivative of yours. I have proved this is absurd and you have yet to retract your position on it.
And for your info, everyone read what you wrote on your post because I quoted it and linked to it. I sent them over to see your side of the story. You don’t seem to be doing the same so please don’t say that other people are jumping to conclusions. It seems that people on your site are doing the same thing because you refused to approve any links to my explanation.
Now it seems you really want me to make you look bad. I’ve explained my position clearly already and you for some reason don’t want to accept the possibility of a coincidence. I’m not sure why is that. As I’ve mentioned, pixel widths don’t prove anything. Many people cut screenshots to the same width as well.
I also did an exact full print page and cropped them using the Snagit tool I’ve always used. One more thing. The images are used are not taken from your post. Want proof?
You mentioned that you did some incredible image analysis and I’m frankly surprised that you didn’t even notice that some of the images are completely different. Why didn’t you mention that at all in your previous comment?
Take a look at your ReviewMe and PayperPost screenshots and compare them to mine. My PPP screenshot has a woman in the center of the frame, your screenshot has a man.
Pay attention to the Review Me pictures and look at the Todays Best list in the bottom right hand corner… the blog links are different and this is only possible when the screenshot was taken on different days. Take one more look at the InBlogAds screenshot, my screen shows me logged into the dashboard, you screen shows a logged out screen.
Are you trying to say that because you published a post which includes screenshots of several websites, all future article published by other bloggers will be derivative of it? That is just illogical. Try your very best to understand that I’ve always been doing screenshots in this way. I gave examples of how I crop and its been consistent for a few months. Why don’t you understand that?
Now this information I did not include because I said that I respected your email privacy. I did not want to disclose anything because I’m not sure what you want to go on the written record. I even went stated in my post to say that I don’t know you or your business at all and these factors are irrelevant to the issue.
It seems you don’t have the same respect for privacy as me and just went out an published a private conversation without even emailing me for permission (I would have agreed).
Now for your argument. I did visit your blog after my post was written and that’s honestly what happened. I or someone in my house might have come across it days before but I can honestly tell you that I have NO RECOLLECTION of your website whatsoever.
So what even if I visited your website before? Ip logs don’t prove anything. They hardly serve as evidence when it comes to this topic. Do you think that everyone who ever visited your website is a potential thief?
If you want to infringe my privacy further by divulging my surfing behavior, that just makes you look very, very bad. Especially when its highly irrelevant to the topic at all. Let’s be very clear here. There is no plagiarism involved nor is there any material derived or based on your work.
Let’s get this straight. This post is a public response to a very public accusation on your website. I’m just responding to what is publicly visible. If you chose to put out information from emails on your site without prior permission, I would have responded to that as well.
Once again, there are no false statements because nothing is factual here. They are offering opinions about your motivations. That’s all. I think your legal team probably has a better understanding of where they are coming from.
———-The Main Problem You Refuse To Address—————–
Does publishing an article first give you monopoly over the ideas or topic? Your statement about SponsoredReviews was absurd and its strange to see how you immediately withdraw from that and focus on the images instead.
I’ve proved that the images (at the very least, some of them) are taken on different days or are completely different. I’ve presented examples of how I crop using previous posts as well.
You are rather unreasonable because you refuse to accept the possibility that people do write about the same topic in different ways. This is what naturally happens when many people are writing about the same topic in a crowded niche.
OK I’ve just found out that everyone is plagarizing SEOposition
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=reviewme+sponsoredreviews+similar&btnG=Search
Wow! You missed some important things here Maki and also write a lot, so let me make our points now and then I’ll leave the rest for our updated post on our site where we include more evidence to back up our thoughts if that’s where we need to go with this.
MAKI: “I’ve never claimed that your intention was linkbait.”
ME: I wasn’t referring to only you dude. Can you read my first line of the post once more to gain clarity? If I said, “and other people who commented” it really can be taken literally. I’m not just talking to you, as confusing as “and other people who commented” might obviously be to ya.
MAKI: “Your opinions are well represented on my site. This is not the case for your website”
ME: Drupal is set to remove links within posts automatically from the body of comments and has been for some time. I added your link back so there was nothing intentional or malicious, so there you go!
MAKI: “This shouldn’t even be a point argued because the commenters have the right to express their own opinion on the origin of a specific action”
ME: It’s a double standard for you to say this just last night in your comments as well in your original post above. Are you that blind to your own words Maki?
MAKI: “I’m not creating a hostile platform for anything” and “I’m not looking for more conflict, just resolution, polite discussion and consensual understanding on something that has just gone way out of hand.”
ME: So if my readers were calling you an asshole, baffoon, you’d like it? Is that polite or consensual discussion? Wouldn’t anyone agree that this creates a hostile discussion if you’re being called these names? Please tell me what’s polite about being called an asshole, wanker, or any other # of terms used? This is crazy! Are you for real Maki? Listen to yourself and your doublespeak b/c it’s quite clear.
“Compare this to the handful of “anonymous” commentors who came to your defence”
ME: Again, are you serious? First of all, defense is spelled incorrectly. It’s with an “s.” OK, saying this again because you obviously didn’t read my comment earlier, did ya? I told you that I deleted them because I decided to take the higher ground here and not let people defame you. So let me ask you, how in the hell do you know the ones that never saw the light of day (yet) are anonymous comments?? Are you psychic? You have no clue who wrote them. Unlike you I don’t feel people being belligerent solves anything and does create a hostile platform and goes against what you asked for in your original post (near the bottom of the original post of yours above). Most anyone that comments in forums like Webmasterworld, SEOchat, Threadwatch, and hundreds more forums or blogs would get banned for comments like those. But hey, I suppose whatever you think is quality comments and “polite discussion” as you put it, right? If you’d like I can retract the deletion of those comments and publish them now. Is that what you want? Just let me know and I’ll be glad to do so if it’s shit slinging and name calling that you want.
MAKI: “On the other hand, you seem to conveniently ignore the fact that your entire post was in fact libelious. Your entire post is a statement of fact. You claimed without a certainty of doubt that I stole from you, even when you don’t have absolute proof.”
ME: Hmm, without a certainty of a doubt you say? Please read my original post because you’re so good at twisting things around to give your readers what you want them to hear and obviously what you want to believe yourself. Let me quote myself: “Maybe I’m missing something here but I feel like he took our idea without the proper attribution.”
Now does that quote from me in my original post sound like a conviction statement or without a “certainty of a doubt” as you put it? I’m inviting answers, doubts, uncertainties by even saying “I feel like” and “maybe I’m missing something.” Oh wait, wait, here’s another quote from me “Yes, it’s different but a derivative as Dosh Dosh points out in the copyright regulations he so adamantly stands behind”
I’m actually saying that your wording is different, not the same!! Also, I mention derivative more than a few times. My real question is with the images you used man, not so much the text since I did only post one similarity within text. It’s not so hard to see this if you really give it a good read without twisting it to make it what you want it to be.
MAKI: “You mentioned that you did some incredible image analysis and I’m frankly surprised that you didn’t even notice that some of the images are completely different. Why didn’t you mention that at all in your previous comment?”
ME: Dude, I did. Why don’t you read a little more closely besides thinking you know it all. I don’t think I used the word “incredible” at all but since you want to be condescending, I’ll play along. Read my original post! Rather let me quote myself instead!
ME: “He [Maki] did go so far as to create a few newer images for several blogs” hence the different screenshots you used on some. What else did you miss or need clarification on here?
MAKI: “I did not want to disclose anything because I’m not sure what you want to go on the written record.”
ME: Huh? I didn’t know that we were in court already. You can use anything I’ve emailed you. I have nothing to hide and haven’t said anything in email that I wouldn’t say here or on our own site. So, go for it. Readers deserve to know it all and I’m not sugar coating or hiding anything in my emails.
MAKI: “It seems you don’t have the same respect for privacy as me and just went out an published a private conversation without even emailing me for permission”
ME: That was some conversation I published – a whole one sentence long… Which by the way, that one sentence says a lot about your character because you quite literally lied to me in your first email and said very clearly that you visited my site 30 minutes AFTER you posted your article and never was at my site beforehand looking at anything. You were clear in this remark at first. Now you’re not. That’s a convenient answer ain’t it?
Especially since I have your IP surfing around my blog review post and other pages well before you posted your article.
Are you seriously going to tell your readers this below:
MAKI: “I or someone in my house might have come across it days before…” and that “I have NO RECOLLECTION of your website whatsoever.”
ME: You told me specifically in your email that you certainly did not visit it until afterwards and then saw the similarities. This is very wishy-washy to me and should be to your readers too.
My suggestion would be to stick to one story or the other because you’ve already said that you didn’t visit the site and that it was a coincidence and now you’re saying you did by email and here in your own words. What is one to believe if you can’t stick to one or the other?
If I post your surfing habits on my site I have every right to do so and I don’t know why that shows anything about what kind of person I am. That’s just silly. Just as you have every right to let some commenter’s name call and defame by crass name calling, I think I have every right to show where you went and what you did on our site since it clearly shows how you told us a lie via email and gives ample information to readers about what you did there. It’s extremely pertinent to this thread. This is very, very important to the topic. But let me get this straight though before you somehow take my words and twist them up again… you’re saying that “someone in your home” might’ve visited instead.
Yeah, sometimes my cat cranks up the laptop while I’m away from home, plays some Quake III while eating some nachos, then surfs SEO blogs while he’s not coding in Rails.
Who else at your home is into SEO? Just curious because this seems like not so good of a scapegoat, especially now since you’re being wishy-washy on the topic in several posts now.
“Ip logs don’t prove anything. They hardly serve as evidence when it comes to this topic. Do you think that everyone who ever visited your website is a potential thief?”
ME: LOL. Man, you know how to stretch and twist the words don’t you?? Where have I said anything remotely close to “every visitor” being a “potential thief?” That’s a pretty horrible question that couldn’t be farther from reality, except maybe for you of course. In fact, that question is quite retarded and not worth answering.
What we will show is that you copied our images (which by the way is and was the MAIN point of my original post on this ever growing series of posts and our original post on our site by the way).
We will be posting an update on our site with more than definitive proof by anyone’s standards with some nice screen captures using the ruler tool and some differences that Snagit performs versus Photoshop when you copy, crop, and drop shadow images, especially when you use Snagit to add a drop shadow an image to a predetermined image size, such as 502px wide for instance.
By the way… a note on the image sizing points you made earlier. Everyone should look at those other “X” lists that you created and noted. Really, seriously. Look at them everyone. Maki has said that he’s standardizing his images but if you look at any of the 5 links he includes as a reference in the top of his post here none of them are 502px wide. Go figure!
1) Two of those posts show 481px wide images
2) Two other garnish 492px wide
3) and the last posted has 490px images
So what’s your point about making your images more standard? Only on this post after you troll on our site and post the exact same topic (different title, more blog reviews), do you decide that 502px is right for you and your site, correct? It’s not just the width either people. Our follow up post with log information and sweet comparison snapshots we’ll show exactly what we mean so we can prove the facts more clearly for you and the readers.
MAKI: “I’ve proved that the images (at the very least, some of them) are taken on different days or are completely different”
ME: You’ve proved that the images that you ‘created’ were done on different days?? I missed this. Could you please point out how you can prove this beyond a drop shadow of a doubt? Thanks for the Snagit tutorial. We use the tool as well, but your tutorial proves nothing really – except how to use Snagit. And, before you digress, please do show me exactly how you can prove that your images were taken on different days without a doubt – other than your own words of course.
My point on any of this Maki is this… You say in your copyright regulations that copying isn’t tolerated and go so far as to say you’ll do everything to bring down that’s persons site and online reputation very adamantly.
That’s NOT what I want to do here. I simply want to be heard. Just because you have more readers and people bashing our name doesn’t mean you or they are right by any stretch of the imagination. Quite frankly, this is between you and I, not your readers. None of your readers did this, so why even bring them into it unless you need others to fight your fights for you? Do you need some help from others to validate your actions? I understand how twisting words to make readers believe in your plight works, such as the many twisted remarks and out of context words you made above, but I feel that many can see through that crap.
Just another example:
MAKI: “Does publishing an article first give you monopoly over the ideas or topic?”
ME: Well no, not at all. Who said that statement? I’ve never said anything even remotely close to that comment anywhere, so get down off your soapbox and talk about actualities, not hyped up fallacies you’re trying to create that are way off-base. I never said anything remotely close to anyone writing or not writing about what they want. I’m talking about image copying, someone on my site hours and the day before, and then the same images being used (for some reviews).
I realize that we’re in the minority here and that’s ok. I’m fine with that all day long. Yes you have way more readers, yes your Alexa ranking is 8k+, yada, yada. Honestly I don’t want nor am I looking for links, traffic, or anything from your blog, other sites, or other readers concerning this topic.
I just want everyone to see very valid points and proof we have and to be heard. If only a few people agree with me that’s OK. I know the proof is in the pudding and if it’s pudding you need, then that’s what you’ll get.
You know, you can be very condescending (just as I’ve also shown I can and have been in this post) and twist my words or bring up other completely new words or ideas that are just plain fictitious. That doesn’t say much for your ethics. Let’s quit belittling and creating questions and wording that isn’t true and stick to facts, not conjured up fallacies.
Brian. See my reply below.
Yes, its fine if they want to call me names. Just long as I have a chance to respond to their accusations I’m fine with that. It’s not a double standard. I was referring to a polite discussion between me and you. Not referring to the comment section. But looks like that’s not happening anytime soon.
Feel free to do that if you want. It’s really your blog and you have the right to do what you want with it. As I’ve mentioned, its fine as long as I or anyone else has the opportunity to present opposing views.
Perhaps without a certainty of a doubt is too harsh but yes you did seem rather adamant on proving your point. I’m mostly troubled by your post title, the claim that the images were stolen and your last line (which you’ve retracted.)
Not twisting anything. I understand your issue is with the images. But you did push the textual similarity as well. Particularly in the ending sentence of your post two days ago. Remember that my post was written as a response to that initial post. I’ll take into account that the images is what you are primarily concerned with. No issues with that at all.
I don’t need any clarification. I’m not referring to newer images for blog networks you didn’t cover. I’m referring to the ones you did. They include Payperpost, ReviewMe and InBlogAds. You covered them in your article. So did I. My screens for these 3 networks are obviously different.
I didn’t say you had anything to hide. I was just being polite by not disclosing email conversations in the public sphere. Just a habit of mine. I know you’re not hiding anything, Brian.
I didn’t lie to you. I did visit your site after I wrote the article.I’m not denying that I might have visited your website beforehand. Like I said, I have absolutely no recollection of it.
Like I’ve mentioned in the email, I did visit your website after I wrote the article. It was then I noticed the similarity. You are claiming that based on my ip, I visited your website before that. This is honestly new to me because like I’ve said, I don’t recall visiting your website at all.
I do dislike the fact that you’re doing it but go right ahead if you want to. I have nothing to lose. As I’ve said many times, ip addresses do prove that someone visited a website, but it isn’t proof of plagiarism. At least to me.
I’m saying someone in my house might have visited your website. I’m not saying that did. The only?reason why?I’m saying is is because you’re basing your evidence solely on ip addresses.
I’m not relegating the blame to some secondary person thats out of the picture. If you really want to insist that it was me instead of someone else who visited the website, go right ahead. I’m just telling you I have no recollection of your site at all.
Have fun with that. I’m looking forward to reading it.
This is perhaps the result of miscommunication. When I mentioned that I standardize the images, i meant that I standardize images within the post itself. I don’t use the same image widths for all my posts and I’m aware of that. Almost anyone who does any analysis or detective work is aware of that. Nothing to hide about that.
The ReviewMe screenshot is taken on another day. You can clearly see that the top sites of the day links are different. The InBlogAds screen shows me logged in and yours shows yours logged out. My screen of Payperpost was not the homepage but an inner page. Yours is the homepage. Clear on that?
I don’t have any intention of destroying your online reputation. You published a post attacking my online reputation. I disagree with it because I wasn’t guilty of the things you accused me of. I responded to it on this website. Nothing wrong with that.
Well you published a public claim/attack on my website and person and I’m just responding in kind publicly. I already told you I would do this in my second email. You could have emailed me back if you didn’t agree with me doing that. You didn’t. So don’t point fingers now.
No one is fighting for me. I’m the only one writing long replies to your comments here. And I wrote my own blog post reply.
Well that’s your opinion but certainly not mine. No words twisted here. I’ve been honest in the post and in the comments section as well.
Your statement about textual similarity and of my commentary being derived from yours implied that. This is an actuality that appears in written form on your blog. I’m asking you a question, in case you didn’t get it. I’m not saying you said it. I’m asking you if you feel that way and telling you that I feel that you think that way. That’s all. I’m not sure how that can be considered a fallacy at all. Makes no sense to me.
I understand that. We aren’t in the same niche as well so I understand what you mean about links, traffic and other stuff.
Well, the comment section here is always open to you.
My apologies if I appear to be condescending. That was not my intention at all and sometimes I do get too worked up on an issue. I think my ethics are fine, thank you. I am sticking to the facts and everything I wrote here is true.
Thanks for taking the time to comment.
I think his comment to Max Leon sums it up “I will likely post more supporting material very soon, so stick around.” Can you make it more obvious?
“We’ve grabbed a complete copy of this page for our own legal team to review since you are allowing people to libel my name without any idea of what’s been said between you and I offline and/or knowledge or facts of the topic. All of the web sites and libelous statements will be kept for review.”
First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States gives strong protection to freedom of expression (now he’s trying to take away our first amendment.. freedom of speech.)
that no provider or user of an interactive computer shall be treated as a publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider,” thereby providing forums immunity for statements provided by third parties
Opinion is a defense recognized in nearly every jurisdiction. If the allegedly defamatory assertion is an expression of opinion rather than a statement of fact, defamation claims usually cannot be brought because opinions are inherently not falsifiable. However, some jurisdictions decline to recognize any legal distinction between fact and opinion. The United States Supreme Court, in particular, has ruled that the First Amendment does not require recognition of an opinion privilege.
Well even if it were a case of blog post on the same subject,there is nothing wrong as long as there is posts show the indviduality of the blogger.Blogging is more of an expression of opinion and no one can claim that an opinion expressed by he/she should not be expressed by others.People visit blogs for their unique styles in presenting things and not necessarily on subjects that interest them.Just keep blogging and enjoy yourselves guys.If you love indy celebrities do visit mine
Hi Susie,
I noticed you also posted on our site. Great for you since you’re obviously an attorney! I’ll publish them in a bit on our site. I’m not sure that you’re an attorney, but if you are, then again, great for you! But I think you either need to read a little more about the laws that govern the blogosphere, commenters, and defamatory remarks that occur on forums, blogs, listservs, and other open online forums. They’re not as “cut and dry” as you put it. There’s more than enough cases here to prove my point. Happy reading!
http://www.internetlibrary.com/topics/defamation_cda.cfm
There’s some interesting cases here. So, when you can come back to this blog and/or mine with your definitive proof from reading all existing cases and the outcomes with 100% conviction that you’re right, then I’ll listen to it and take note fully. If you can’t or are not an attorney, then I wouldn’t suggest not saying/quoting things that don’t apply or that I’m taking away anyone’s first amendment rights.
It seems a little odd you say this as well because one set of attorneys I’ve worked with in NC has won two cases over the last two years for similar defamation/libel suits online – one from a forum and one from a blog. If you’d like to email me your fax number through he contact form on our site I’d be glad to get a hard copy of each to fax over to you because they are not posted online (but are public domain information and already emailed my contact there to receive a copy of each if needed).
So, just to note – I’ve established the existence of a prima facie case, I’ve already noted the comments that were defamatory (if needed), and I’ve identified the allegedly defamatory statements clearly by saving a copy of the page and noting them in my comments.
Note: I’m not claiming that I anything close to an attorney either. But I’m great at data research, making calls to the right people for info., and finding more than enough information to support things I say – unlike others.
Susie,
Forgot this in my post above to iterate my point… especially since you’re one of the people calling names: [You] “I wouldn’t worry about that buffoon… he really sounds like a total jackass”
One similar example to this thread on Maki’s site concerning what some people have commented:
http://www.internetlibrary.com/cases/lib_case395.cfm
Quote:
“Plaintiffs’ subpoena called for the Court to balance the protections afforded individuals by the First Amendment to speak anonymously with those afforded an individual to protect his reputation. The Court acknowledged the importance of the right to speak anonymously, particularly on political issues, and recognized that this right had long received protection under the First Amendment. The Court also noted, however, that the First Amendment does not protect all speech. It does not, for example, give one the right to defame another.”
This discussion we’re having on this thread also indicates something different and solidifies at least one thing further from the case I noted above in that some of the commenters are not posting anonymously but instead including their web sites URLs and names and/or aliases, such as yours.
So, I’m asking kindly for you to please do more research and let us all know what you find that’s conclusive before saying that I’m taking away 1st amendment rights since you (nor I) are attorneys. If you’re going to accuse me of that now, all I’m asking is for you to back it up besides thinking you’re an attorney or something to that effect.
Brian,
I’ve consulted an attorney in the past about the legality of visitor’s comments. Basically, the precedent is thus:
*If you automatically moderate comments (as you did on your post), you are liable for the comments that get posted. In this case, technically the blog owner is posting the comments.
*If you don’t automatically moderate comments (such as Maki’s site), you are not liable for the comments that visitors post because technically the blog owner is not posting them.
The same basic rule applies to forums and a similar rule applies to proxy logs. If you feel like arguing this point, hire a lawyer. Of course, it’s a moot point because nothing that has been said here would be considered illegal in any court of law in north america. People aren’t committing slander by saying that they feel you’re being a jerk in this situation. They are expressing an opinion.
Frankly, you’re making Maki’s case: you’re so unobservant that you don’t bother listening when he explains (for example) that he is logged in with one screenshot, or that a huge(!) picture in one of them is different, or that text is different in another. I agree with blog-op: why would Maki (who makes great content every day and has a stellar reputation) bother to copy your work? I think you’re letting your ego show a lot in your posts here and acting like it’s *so obvious* that you’ve been wronged, when really all I see is that you’re ignoring all of the facts that Maki keeps repeating. Maybe you should try reading Maki’s responses before blatantly indicating that you have no idea what’s been said. Stop Skimming.
You’ve also stated that, yes the content was different and that Maki covered more programs — that when added to the fact that the screenshots don’t match really makes it looks like you’re just trying to stir up trouble. You literally have no leg to stand on with your acusations and you’re really reaching. Again, show us this “proof” and maybe we won’t think you’re just being a jerk.
You’ve committed libel in a public arena and then get offended when other people get mad about that. You don’t listen to facts and you blatantly lie about “tests” that you’ve performed which you feel “prove” that they are the same screenshots (which they are not). I’d love to see this so-called “proof” that you keep touting, because so far all I’ve heard from you is Opinion.
And just so you know, some varieties of English spell defense with a “c” — defence. If you’re going to be a grammar nazi, at least get your facts straight first. Again, you’re letting your ego hang all over the place when you aren’t paying attention to the facts.
I think a lot of people are getting confused with the “opinion” angle in defamation. To help clarify, there’s a great EFF FAQ on defamation.
The test is “whether a reasonable reader or listener could understand the statement as asserting a statement of verifiable fact.” The article goes on to explain “A statement that the plaintiff is a ‘Dumb Ass,’ even first among ‘Dumb Asses,’ communicates no factual proposition susceptible of proof or refutation.”
I’d suggest for everyone to read that page before you start claiming libel. Exactly how can you prove or disprove whether someone is a “jackass” or “buffoon”?
Please note that I’m not condoning name-calling. I think that’s childish and doesn’t solve anything.
Andrew
Griffin,
I could apply skimming or not reading in full to you as well, so it’s a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Applying your one consultation with your one attorney does not definitively say what’s right or wrong since every case is different. Please read the URL and some of the cases I gave for an example. That’s why I noted it! Some plaintiffs won, some lost. It all depends on the court, jurisdiction, and exact specifications of the case being disputed. Neither you or I could make that call. So, if your one consultation with your one attorney has reviewed this, put it before any judge, and come to a legal conclusion, I would not really see your point as being very concrete.
I’ve applied my own advice to myself in that regards as well, saying that I was not an attorney. But how can you explain the cases won mentioned in just the ONE referenced URL I posted as well as the few from the NC attorneys and I’m sure many others related to blogs and forums? Why do these hold no weight with you?
Are you unobservant in the fact that Maki told me via email before any of this happened that he never visited my site until afterwards. He’s since retracted that saying he may’ve visited just before posting his article. Then he said that maybe someone from his home possibly did. In the end, he doesn’t know. I guess we’ll chalk that up to short term memory loss…
Considering the timing of his visits on the site hours and the day before, some very similar snapshot comparisons, his detraction and possible memory loss from being on our site at all, makes this not add up. I made is very clear in my original post that his copyright regulations was the kicker. Even in his earlier post about being copied himself he said:
“When in doubt, always do the courteous thing and credit a website or blog you are taking the content from.”
So, I’m baffled. Why visit and stay on a particular page of someone else’s site where a blog review post lives, write (or post) an article about blog reviews such a very short time afterwards (adding several more reviews), and then forget that you were ever on that site just a day or so later make sense? Most bloggers I know aren’t forgetful like that at all. No one has mentioned this being any bit of a valid point or concern.
It comes down to us both being able to make valid points because you really can’t discredit what I mentioned above.
Also, I was very observant in seeing that some images were different and have made that point in the original post as well as in comments above. Please read them again, cause you are skimming or just don’t care to see that it was already commented on several times. I never said every image, so take my words literally and don’t replace or insert words where you think they are needed. Also, why keep bringing up stuff that’s been confirmed already dude? Feels like a broken record…
“You don’t listen to facts and you blatantly lie about “tests””
Where have I blatantly lied now? Please point it out or show me… Or did you not read comments and posts already made…again? If you’d quit skimming you’d see what’s been said already.
There is no retraction. I said that I’ve only visited your site after the article was completed because thats exactly what I did. I didn’t mention that I visited your site earlier in my email because like I’ve said many times before, I don’t remember visiting your website at all.
Note very carefully that I’m not going back on my word or anything at all. Perhaps you could try to understand this statement and not harp on this issue anymore: In the email, I said that I only visited your site after the article was written because at the time of writing the email, I have no recollection of visiting your site earlier.
My memory is perfectly fine. No need for sarcasm.
Like I’ve mentioned before. I mentioned that someone else might have visited the site because you are basing your whole argument on ip addresses.Someone staying in the same home uses the same ip, that’s all.
I’m not pushing the blame on anyone outside of the story. Just suggesting that is something possible that might have happened. If you want to insist that I’m the only one visiting your website, that’s fine with me. Its your opinion.
Like I said, no retraction. No memory loss. I stand by what I said in the email. You are offering evidence using ip logs and I am willing to submit to your suggestion that I visited your site earlier. I have no qualms with that.
I don’t think you should assume to understand how people use or surf the internet. I visit a tremendous amount of webpages everyday because I do a lot of research. I’m telling you very simply, without any bullshitting, that I don’t remember visiting your website at all. That’s the truth. I stand behind it fully.
I understand you have your own opinion about it. That’s fine with me. I can’t make you think the way I want. I’ve already argued my case and left it as such. I’m sure people around us know both our opinions quite well already.
It’s time to give it a rest.
I agree.
Brian,
Glad we both agree on something. With that, I’m closing the comment section now. No one will be able to comment on this post from now on.
Thanks for sharing your opinion so far.
Maki
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